Talk:Province of Posen

On the population table

The population table for Prussia is great, but shouldn't it be in the Prussia article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwood (talk • contribs) 19:07, 21 February 2004 (UTC)

Definitely. I also think it's almost certainly wrong. I can't believe that there were only a few thousand people in Posen and West Prussia who did not speak German. john 19:22, 21 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps the footnote isn't worded correctly, and the column heading can be interpretted more literally. The numbers might match "foreigners". Certainly in 1890, a significant portion of the ethnic Polish in Posen couldn't speak German very well, even if most of the children had been forced to learn it in school. - Bwood 01:19, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps. Certainly it is difficult to understand how there could be more non-German speakers in the Rhineland than in Posen. I'd add that a fairly substantial of Poznanian peasants probably had no education at all, and many will have been educated before 1863, when education would likely still have been in Polish. john 01:52, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Added ethnic or national structure ("Nationalverschiedenheit" in German) for year 1819

Data for year 1819 (Poles - 77.0% of the population; Germans - 17.5%; Jews - 5.5%) is from Dr. Georg Hassel, "Statistischer Umriß der sämmtlichen europäischen und der vornehmsten außereuropäischen Staaten, in Hinsicht ihrer Entwickelung, Größe, Volksmenge, Finanz- und Militärverfassung, tabellarisch dargestellt", Erster Heft, "Welcher die beiden großen Mächte Österreich und Preußen und den Deutschen Staatenbund darstellt", Verlag des Geographischen Instituts Weimar, page 43.

Can someone please provide a source reference for 1861 ethnic figures? Currently they are unsourced. Peter558 (talk) 14:30, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

On feudalism

(moved from page to Talk) (see Freiherr vom Stein), I feel this is more appropriate in an article about feudalism, and perhaps we should see if one exists and link into it or create one. I'm taking your word about the 1810 date, I was thinking that serfdom was removed in stages by decree, and am pretty confidant that it was not stringently enforced for decades, allowing the old practices to continue in some form on many estates until the late 1800s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwood (talk • contribs) 16:55, 25 April 2004 (UTC)

After looking at the link, I'm going to put it back in pending more research. The vom Stein article has a lot of useful detail, but it is buried and needs to be added to a separate article about German and Polish feudalism. I'm particularily interested on how the Prussian laws affected Posen, since the law changed when Napoleon had removed Posen from Prussia. I seem to remember that the laws were different from Prussia proper and the annexed provinces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwood (talk • contribs) 17:03, 25 April 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Historical States

The article is being conformed to the project template of Wikipedia:WikiProject Historical States Bwood 03:07, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Meh.

Western Posen at around this time would have been primarily German -- Greater Poland only begins with the eastern portions, regardless of what Cold War nationalist Polish propaganda says.

Regardless, I rewrote the section that pertains to ownership of it thruought history -- it is now written more clearly. Ameise -- chat 08:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

German-speaking Jews... Germans???

Prussian censuses classified German speaking Jewish minority as German speakers! Germans were a clear majority only on the westernmost (West of the Warta and Obra rivers) and northernmost fringes - around the Notec (Netze) river.

Anyway, the Poznan Voivodship, which corresponded almost exactly to Province Posen, had 90% Poles and only 7% Germans. Why in Province Posen German speakers constituted a minority of 38%. Even if some were excluded in Grenzmark Posen-Westpreussen, where did most of them go??? They were simply re-classified as Jewish minority. After Holocaust and WW II expulsions of Germans, the number of German speakers fell to less than 1% —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.46.111 (talk) 12:33, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

the first Germans coming as settlers

The link to Settlers is incorrect, because it redirects to Settler (disambiguation). What the author wanted to say? I bet that many Germans came to Poland before the partition and many of them became Poles. Later some Germans came under Prussians.Xx236 10:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

German (re-)settlement in the area of the Province of Posen started in the 14th/15th century, centuries before the Polish partitions, according to the English language "Ostsiedlung" wikipedia page. Up until the migration period (approx. 400 to 800 AD) the area was inhabited mainly by germanic tribes. From then on, slavs moved in as the germanic tribes moved west and south. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.61.212.198 (talk) 11:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Two references and a realted title that might be added:

The naturalized Jews of the Grand Duchy of Posen in 1834 and 1835 / compiled by Edward David Luft ; foreword by Sallyann Amdur Sack., Rev. ed., [Bergenfield, N.J.] : Avotaynu, 2004, xxix, 278 pp. DS135.P62 P636 2004. Related title: Verzeichniss sämmtlicher naturalisirten Israeliten im Grossherzogthum Posen.,

Luft, Edward David, The Jews of Posen Province in the Nineteenth Century: A Selective Source Book, Research Guide, and Supplement to The Naturalized Jews of the Grand Duchy of Posen in 1834 and 1835, Washington, D.C.: Edward David Luft, ©2015, 1,967 pp. Available on Digibaeck at https://www.lbi.org/digibaeck/results/?term=Luft+ Posen+Province&qtype=basic&stype=contains&paging=25&dtype=any/; at the Library of Congress, Washington, DC; at https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/2586236?availability=Family%20History%20Library; and online at http://kehilalinks. jewishgen.org/poznan/Jews_of_Posen.html; at https://www.wbc. poznan.pl/dlibra/publication/472066/edition/381538/content — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Posen (talk • contribs) 20:41, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Germanized Jews

The Jews obtained many rights in Prussia and Germanized (they used to talk German dialect before, the Yddish). There were many of them. Some of them emigrated from Prussia, some moved to Germany after 1918.Xx236 10:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

It's strange that the table under "Divisions" contains a column "Jewish" but nothing is entered for any district. In fact, the Polish and German speakers add up to 100% in every case. The sentence "The German figure includes the German-speaking Jewish population" below makes you ask the question: where are Polish or Yiddish speaking Jews included, if there were any? No proof is given for the claim that the figures of the census were falsified, and by the looks of it this is unlikely to be true: some areas are listed as 90% Polish speaking, so if there was any "falsification" this would probably have been very minor (the Polish historian Leszek Belzyt estimates a minor underrepresentation of 2 - 3% for Polish speakers in the 1890 and 1910 censuses, see German language page). The added information that garrisons were included isn't really relevant - today most countries still go about censuses this way. The garrisons hardly made up a large proportion of the population and were mixed German/Polish anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.61.212.198 (talk) 11:40, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Grand Duchy of Posen

It's the same area and population as in the Grand Duchy of Posen. Wouldn't it be better to start with this information instead of craddle?Xx236 10:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Data in Grand Duchy entry has now been changed to a pre-1848 value. - 52 Pickup 10:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I mean the introduction with "cradle of the Polish nation" and Jewish information (BTW without the number of Jews). SUch informations can be eventually in the Grand Duchy of Posen, her ethe text should start with Grand Duchy of Posen was reorganized to .... or something like that. I don't know that period. Xx236 11:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Maps

I removed one map with several innacuracies, the current German map is more precise then even the map put here.--Molobo (talk) 03:39, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Poor article

Seems like copy of old Brittanica or Catholic Encyclopedia. Needs a serious re-write--Molobo (talk) 00:52, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Minor corrections

Poles voted against joining the German Confederation. The Frankfurt Parliament ignored this, led by demands to pursue German nationalism in its politics.--Molobo (talk) 01:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Greater Poland / Wielkpolska

Is it correct to say that Province of Posen roughly corresponded to the region of Greater Poland / Wielkopolska? I find it strange that the current article doesn't mention Greater Poland / Wielkpolska at all. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

"Is it correct to say that Province of Posen roughly corresponded to the region of Greater Poland?" That is correct and should be mentioned. I introduced it into the text (2nd para, 1st sentence). Skäpperöd (talk) 04:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, Skäpperöd! - In the text you introduced, the two words "later province" don't quite make sense in English. After trying to find a smoother way to convey your point, I reckon it would be better to put it on the end of the 2nd sentence in the 1st para, as ", roughly corresponding to the historical region of Greater Poland." What do you say? Permacultura (talk) 14:06, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Fine with me, when I introduced "later province" I thought of the current voivodeship bearing this name and its |historic predecessor. Skäpperöd (talk) 14:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Notable People?

What exactly is the criteria to be listed here? Is it originating from the Province or being famous for work within it? I don't doubt that the people listed did important things, however, it seems rather odd to have a (relatively over sized) list of people whose entries are little more than a sentence and one reference. I suppose if the criteria is indeed restricted to work within the area itself, the list would suffice. However, if it can include people originating from there, why are there no mentions of Marian Rejewski, Mieczysław Garsztka, Kurt Tank, or Paul von Hindenburg? Perhaps a separate list would be beneficial for listing everyone while the article itself should try to cover those with a bit more notability? MagicBear (talk) 22:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

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