Talk:Democrats of the Left

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Untitled

Io li chiamerei "Left Wing Democrats" in inglese.. I would propose "Left Wing Democrats" as translation..

I agree that "Left-wing Democrats" (notice hyphen though) would be better rendering the Italian expression. --Orzetto 06:13, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

But how is it normally translated? I feel like I've seen "Democrats of the Left," and never seen "Left-Wing Democrats." john k 23:12, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's because most Italians (including DS president Massimo D'Alema, for example) have a very foggy idea of the English language. The DS webside does not have English pages, let alone an official translation of the name. Probably the "of the left" part remained from the Democratic Party of the Left, DS's predecessor, in which there was actually a "the" in the name. Until there is no official translation, I think it's best to keep the one that most closely resembles the Italian original. --Orzetto 07:07, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Left Democrats" or "Democrats of the Left" would be better, in my opinion. The title "Left-Wing Democrats" is rather peculiar. I've never seen it before as a translation for this party's name, and it really doesn;t sound like the name of a political party. It sounds more like a description for a faction within a party or movement, possible the left wing of the US Democratic Party. I recommend a move. Palmiro | Talk 11:40, 31 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In current English-language election coverage, Left-Wing Democrats is clearly outpaced by Democrats of the Left. I'm moving the page. The Tom 02:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You might also notice that none of the hits above is for DS. The problem with "left-wing democrats" is that it sounds like a description, not a party name. I'm afraid 149.132.99.54 and Orzetto are just going to have to trust the ear of the native speakers here; "Democrats of the Left" sounds right; "Left-wing Democrats" sounds wrong. --Trovatore 15:04, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, in Italian "left-wing" is translated "di sinistra" and "of the Left" is translated "della Sinistra". I suppose that the translations work in the other way, too. I do not discuss the translation of the name of the party, which should reflect the current English-language election coverage, but I think that it could be interesting to note that the meaning is slightly different. It isn't very important, anyway. Clap 10:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In what way do you see the meanings as different? I see them meaning the same thing, but having a slightly different "tone" or "register"; "left-wing" is a prosaic description, whereas "of the left" is the sort of slightly flowery talk you'd put in a party name. --Trovatore 00:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In Italian, "Democratici della Sinistra" would mean that they are the Democrats of the Left wing of politics, while "Democratici di Sinistra" means that they are Democrats with Left-wing views. For example, you can say that a movie director is "di sinistra", meaning that he has Left-wing views, but you don't say that he is "della Sinistra", unless you mean that he has a real, almost official link with Left-wing parties. "Democratici di sinistra" sounds more informal, and it could sound like a description for a faction within a party also in Italian. Clap 08:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's pretty hard to see how the DS can fail to have an "official link with left-wing parties", given that it's the biggest one (by the way, "left" is not capitalized in English, though it would be capitalized in a party name because that's a proper noun). I can sort of see your point but I think it's a bit strained. I've never heard a party name containing the word "wing"; it just doesn't strike me as belonging there.

As someone suggested, "Left Democrats" might work as a translation, except that an official translation already exists. --Trovatore 14:25, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, it's a bit strained. Let's stop here. Clap 07:45, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, I am an italian man and I tell yuo that the Democrats of Left arn't a social democratic political party but are a socialist party. For this reason I leave democratic socialism alone.

I live in Italy too and I think that the DS are well to the left, but it is wrong to forget that they include also many social-democrats (Nicola Rossi, Enrico Morando, Michele Salvati, Valdo Spini, Giuseppe Caldarola, etc. and, in some ways, also Fassino and D'Alema are social-democrats in the European sense). --Checco 17:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am convinced that the DS are nearer the democratic socialism than not to a modern social democracy. Then also the statute refers not to the social democracy but the democratic socialism. I'm agree with you on the fact that Bersani, Morando are political of social democratic type, but don't forget you that in the party there are also the "left" areas, maybe for this in the statute they have found as reference point for the whole party the "democratic socialism".

Merger

Can someone tell me more about the merger with Daisy? In the UK we don't hear about Italian politics except at election times. Will the merged party remain in the PES in the European parliament? Pulling 12 MEPs from the PES would be quite a blow to the PES. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.6.216.186 (talk) 06:41, 16 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

There's an article about the possible merger on Democratic Party (Italy). Anyway, it is all yet unknown, and it will keep being unknown till the next party convention on April. --Angelo 13:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]