Talk:Rude boy

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Rude boy article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Caribbean: Jamaica High‑importance

	Caribbean portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Jamaica portal This article is supported by WikiProject Jamaica (assessed as High-importance).

Reggae High‑importance

	This article is part of the Reggae WikiProject, a group of Wikipedians interested in improving the coverage of articles relating to ska and reggae. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.ReggaeWikipedia:WikiProject ReggaeTemplate:WikiProject ReggaeReggae articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Culture

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CultureWikipedia:WikiProject CultureTemplate:WikiProject Cultureculture articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Comments

I'm [Ben Samuel] and I live in London and therefore regularly experience "Rude Boys", a subculture related to the Jamaican one but distinctly British. These gangs of youths as the Police call them will find any excuse to pick a fight, and cynically target affluent areas, moving about to avoid detection. They especially like violence, mobile phones and garage music (the type found on pirate radio). Some like bikes to. Strategies: Avoid at all costs as they always mean trouble. Even if they commit a crime such as obstructing a pathway, it is very hard to nail them. The best way is to go into a public place (away from them) and tell the police to come, with sirens off, so they don't scarper.

Sounds like "gangstas" or "chavs", less like rude boys.

As an American Citizen I find Rude Boy's to be friendly, outgoing, and generally all around good people, but of course this is the American version. I've had many run in's with the American RudeBoy, and all of them turned out just fine, the horror stories you hear about traveling packs of wolf-like youth are fictional here in the states, some try to put on a good show and act like they're tough and rude, but it's all an act.
However, upon visiting London on many occasions for work-related traveling I came in contact with the above mentioned RudeBoy(by Ben there) and it varies from person to person. Some take on a more lighthearted view on the subculture, while others take it drastically too far.
Either way if you see a RudeBoy causing meaningless trouble, just laugh and keep walking, they only harrass people who don't like them, or interfer with them. In fact if you don't mind having some buddies of questionable legality, they can be loyal friends.

I have relocated the information about Rude Boy: The Jamaican Don to its own page, as I believe it has enough information to qualify for its own film page. --^pirate 16:57, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The most common usage of the term rudeboy in England is now by those who would not class themselves as 'rudeboys' to denote teenage (definetely not adult) black individuals who dress in imitation of American (mainly) rap or hip hop musicians and attempt to portray an image of criminality. Although in some cases this amy be merely ana ct it would be more accurateto refer to these people as pseudo-rudeboys, as engaging in violent crime is in actual usage inherent to the term. Rudeboys tend to hang around on trains and at the very least create an atmosphere of intimidation and very often engage in robbery and assaults which quite commonly result in serious injury especially in south london. Anyone who laughs at a rudeboy as the above poster suggests is severly misguided and runs real risk of attack. At the least i think a section should be inserted to cover the meaning of rudeboy with relation to street crime of thuis nature, and a warning to any tourists who may have the wrong impression. Nearly all rudeboys carry knives from the age of about 12 up. Call the police if you like but they take no interest. NOTE: chav = white working class rudeboy = black Not synonymus Also he was gay

Sorry to disabuse you, but there are as many black chavs as there are white rudies (many more, in fact); and as for gay ones, at least 10% of any demographic will be, that's just a fact.

Nuttyskin (talk) 04:51, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Material removed from merge

I merged Rudeboy clothing into Rude boy, but some of the material from that page bordered on advertisement:

"The Rudeboy™ clothing line was inspired by the original Rudeboys of the West Kingston ghetto - Trenchtown. This Concrete Jungle with its harsh conditions, oppression and violence eventually gave birth to the fearless "rudeboy". These rudeboys became notorious all throughout Jamaica as cool, dangerous and trendsetting. Through their defiance, rudys relentlessly fought against the colonial system that created their destitute living conditions. Eventually, they evolved from mere street hooligans to neighborhood "Dons" . Being a rudeboy is a show of defiance. A shunning of the social injustice, racism and poverty, with the ability to forge ahead in a hostile environment. It means using your talents to create a niche. It means being street smart and aware no matter where life takes you. Finally, it is the ability to remain strong under any circumstance."

Sourced from Rudeboy Clothing Inc. (www.rudeboyclothing.net 3/21/06)

While this information may be useful, it should not be placed in an encyclopedia article in its current form. 24.126.199.129 17:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Rude Boy Clothing article was about a specific clothing company, not about rude boy fashion in general. Whether that clothing company was notable enough to warrant an article is debatable, but the new information in the Fashion section of the Rude Boy article is incorrect, so I deleted it. The orignal rude boys wore suits, and had nothing to do with rastafarian culture. Yes, the term has changed its meaning over the years, but if there's going to be a fashion section, it should start with information about the original styles.Spylab 18:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)Spylab[reply]

The orignal rude boys wore suits, and had nothing to do with rastafarian culture

Rastafarian culture had been a background presence in Jamaican culture since the 1930s. The influence of Rastafarian thought can be heard in such ska tracks as Jimmy Cliff's King of Kings and the Maytals' Six and Seven Books. Lots of the later Rastas started out as Rudies, including Bob Marley and the Wailers ("The Wailing Wailers" as they were in their Studio One days). And by a bizarre symmetry, even the 2-Tone mascot Walt Jabsco was based on a publicity photo of Peter Tosh

Nuttyskin (talk) 05:26, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Removing rude boy mythology

Removed some of the biased information linking rude boys to skinhead subculture. Also removed the romanticized view of rude boys as a subculture based on music. Rude boys were not a subculture, they were the equivilant of criminal gangsters in the Kingston slums. Upsetterfc 13:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Again, being a rude boy in Jamaica wasn't about music and fashion. It was common behavior amongst Jamaicans of different backgrounds. The skinhead books cited is biased towards UK culture and not a reference on or about Jamaican culture.Upsetterfc 14:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Styling definitions here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/styling Upsetterfc 15:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the references to skinheads isn't about Jamaica, since skinheads started in the UK. The point is that rude boys had an influence on other people, just as black jazz artists influenced white hipsters and early mods, and black rappers have had an influence on people of all races and backgrounds. That is relevant to this article. I looked at that link to the definition of styling, and in the context of this article, styling definitely refers to fashion, music and other lifestyle factors. Therefore, the sentence should be specific and say that, instead of using the ambiguous word styling, which will leave readers with more questions than answers.Spylab 15:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I over-sharpened definition.Upsetterfc 15:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rude Boy is a subculture

There are many online links and valid information citing rude boy as one of the first Jamacain cults . You should include how rudeboys influenced the skins . Rudeboys were avid listeners or ska and rocksteady . Now the rude boys were working class youth , like there skinhead brothers , they are seen with skins in bowler hats and gloves in docs like reggae by horance ove . Its crazy wot you guys are leaving out in the article in terms of influence on skins ... if there was no rudeboy there would be no skinhead ! Skinhead was a coming together of working class mod or hard mods .... and rudeboys . If there was no rudeboy skinhead would just be a mod who happened to listen to reggae . Who happened to cut there hair like young carribeans ....

Re-formed the article

I found the Rudeboy article to be kind of limited in its depth and classification. The basics of the Rudeboy werethere, but I felt some further refinement could be useful. As the term Rudeboy originates from young men specifically going to dancehalls, to not have the musical element present with the Rudeboy does it a disservice. Also, it is important to not essentialize what a Rudeboy is. As such, if we historicize it, and show how it has changed throughout time and place, we can form a bigger picture of how it has evolved, without ignoring some groups in favor of biasing towards others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rudeboydreaming (talk • contribs) 00:56, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's fine that you felt the article needed to be expanded and improved, but the majority of what you added is unreferenced, and where citations are provided, they are not of good quality (the YouTube video, for example). As such, it cannot remain until good references are provided. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 01:20, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the change throughout time was a nice addition, and I believe it could stand solely with a YouTube reference. I think subcultures can be hard to support with hard facts. I think the depth could increase greatly if that addition of change throughout time was still standing. Lconnell717 (talk) 00:15, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I question the reformatting of the history portion of rude boy. It was easier to read when the time periods were separated and there were references to back up the info. Bubbles05 (talk) 00:26, 13 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Myth of Sound-System clashes

Sound-systems were always local phenomena but did play abroad. Sound-systems such as the Jamaican Kilimanjaro would tour the UK. V-Rocket was one of the earliest sound-systems in the 1950s (I think). Sound-systems would compete and the few clashes I've attended (long time ago and very local) involved an out-of town sound-system arriving with their crew to set up and then the clash would start. I think a deliberate attempt to stop a dance isn't in the spirit of sound-system clashes. If tempers flare at any event with opposing teams (ie. football) it is just normally verbal insults rather than "out and out" war. I think bellicose descriptions just add to the excitement of supporting a team. Sound-system clashes might suggest a cheesy "West End Story" plot but the reality is far nearer to a jazz "head-cutting" jam. Is "head-cutting" bellicose language?

The claim that people were paid to crash a dance needs investigating since even I don't imagine Duke Reid, Coxsone and V-Rocket set out a deliberate policy funded by payment to achieve such a thing. Probably friction or competition between the different crews led to occasional trouble. I won't change the statement to do with dance crashing but I will ask that the majority of the Jamaican section be considered unrealistic in its presentation of the idea that violence was a regular and forgone conclusion at all sound-system dances.

Sluffs (talk) 16:45, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Single by Desmond Dekker

Hi, I've added the reference to the single by Dekker which is referenced in his discography on his page. My addition has been removed without discussion, is this wikipedia practice? Spylab: what about discussing it here before deleting? I've reversed your deletion and I'm open to debate and provide references, but I won't accept such unilateral deletionist behaviour. jaromil (talk) 11:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, since this is Wikipedia, if you want to publish the very specific claim that one specific song popularized the term in one specific year, you have to back up that bold argument with a reliable reference. Otherwise, the sentence can be deleted at any time, by anyone, without discussion. It's great that you are open to providing references, as is required by Wikipedia policies. See WP:RS.Spylab (talk) 13:36, 30 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Spilab. The popularity of D.Dekker's song and the fact it carries the "Rude Boy" definition in its title in the specified year is enough of a reference to facts, IMHO. Popularization dispute aside, I do find it ridicule that the voice about "Rude Boy" (sub)culture doesn't mentions at all the work of Desmond Dekker. I just hope your spies are well informed on the topic of Rude Boys and why Dekker shouldn't be mentioned here. Best wishes jaromil (talk) 09:48, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia's policies regarding references: WP:RS.Spylab (talk) 14:46, 1 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Picture

An artistically blurred photo of a Walt Jabsco figure and a model scooter are not a representative picture of Rudeboys in any sense of the word. Please can we have something a little more archival?

Nuttyskin (talk) 04:47, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Doctor (rapper)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Doctor (rapper) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 4 § Doctor (rapper) until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 (talk) 18:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]