Talk:List of monarchs of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia

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Comment

This page was incorrectly at Monarchs of Armenia, but these people ruled an Armenian kingdom in what's now southern Turkey. I have moved the page to reflect the correct context. Isomorphic 00:27, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have edited the page to make it clearer what they ruled. However, I don't know what they syled themselves. Did they claim the title "King of Armenia"? Isomorphic 19:35, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

They are referred to as "King (or Queen) or Armenia" in all the references I have seen, which is what led to the original faulty nomenclature. Zannah 00:45, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

Naming

Name of Dynasts should be change to the following and dates, this is more correct.

Based on info from Paul Z. Bedoukians Coinage of Cilician Armenia.

BARONIAL PERIOD

ROUPEN I (1080-1095)

GOSDANTIN (1095-1100)

TOROS I (1100-1123)

LEVON I (1123-1138)

TOROS II (1144-1168)

MLEH (1169-1174)

ROUPEN II (1174-1187)

LEVON II (1187-1199)

ROYAL PERIOD

LEVON I (1199-1219)

REGENCY FOR ZABEL (1219-1222)

ZABEL AND PHILIP (1222-1225)

HETOUM I (1226-1270)

LEVON II (1270-1289)

HETOUM II (1289-1293, 1295-1296, 1299-1301, 1301-1306)

REGENCY OF PRINCE TOROS (1293-1295)

SMBAT (1296-1298)

GOSDANTIN I (1298-1299)

LEVON III (1301-1307)

OSHIN (1307-1320)

LEVON IV (1320-1342)

GUY LUSIGNAN (1342-1344) GOSDANTIN II

GOSDANTIN III (1344-1363)

LEVON THE USURPER (1363-1365)

GOSDANTIN IV (1365-1373)

LEVON V LUSIGNAN (1374-1375)

After elevation of realm to a kingdom, numbers on kings reset. And so called Roupen II was a simple minor who is not eve considered a ruler. Just a succesor who was deposed.

I asked User:Eupator for a list of suggested transliterations, which he graciously provided, (see my talk page), but I've been postponing that project until I fill out the royal biographies covered by Kurkjian's History of Armenia and the texts Robert Bedrosian has put online. As regards the other issues, some sources renumber the rulers after the elevation, some don't. I tend to prefer a continuous series of numbering, which avoids the issue of what to call Rupen I, etc., other than "of Armenia," but I'd be interested in the opinions of other Wikipedians working on Armenian history. As for the unfortunate Rupen II, it's normal practice to include minor kings in the West, such as John I of France or Edward V of England in the succession and numbering, and I don't see why it should be different here. Choess 01:43, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Lords of the Mountains"???

This particular title, "Lords of the Mountains", is not sourced anywhere, there are very few Google hits, and The Armenian Kingdom in Cilicia During the Crusades by Jacob Ghazarian (a foremost source) does not mention this. Moreover, it lacks specificity (it lacks a placename reference. I decided to Be Bold and have instead used Prince. Thanks, MapMaster 04:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pretenders

For titles of the House of Savoy post-1485, see [1] and [2]. From 1632, the Dukes of Savoy began to use the style "King of Cyprus etc.", which etcetera may perhaps include Jerusalem and Armenia; by 1720 they were using Cyprus and Jerusalem (no etc.), and only after 1861 does "King of Armenia" appear among the titles of the Kings of Italy. Admittedly, the arms of Armenia were included in the quarterings of Savoy all along. Choess (talk) 03:31, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Naming conventions

For the discussion that resulted in the current nomenclature for the kings of Cilicia, see /Proposed naming convention. Srnec (talk) 03:44, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]