Talk:Sütterlin

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After World War II Sütterlin was again used in some schools until the 1970s.

What's the source for this statement? I find it somewhat hard to believe, and in any case it would be interesting to know where that happened. I assume it'd be West Germany or Switzerland? Prumpf 00:05, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A little late in responding here :), but I was taught Sütterlin in a German Volksschule (elementary school) around the mid-sixties, albeit that's original research, I guess... Asav (talk) 15:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When my parents were in elementary school in the early 1970s, they also learned Sütterlin and Fraktur. However, back then, these were already considered deprecated. They were only taught because there were plenty of older documents, books, etc. around that were written in those old scripts. When I was at school, we weren't taught Sütterlin or Fraktur; However, I can read Fraktur anyway (unusual for someone of my Generation) but I cannot read Sütterlin. One thing that really surprised me was that the math textbook we used in 13th grade used Sütterlin letters for vectors. However, that notation was regarded as deprecated, i.e. when we did our homework we had to convert exercises to the notation that is used today - normal small latin letters with arrows above. And we didn't have to know Sütterlin for exams. -- 79.238.174.228 (talk) 19:57, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Some images to illustrate the differences in letterforms would be really nice. 24.215.177.116 01:43, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Done -- Chris 73 Talk 01:50, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

For me IE doesn't render the unicode for the ligatures in the below correctly - even though it does really well with the unicode examples on the unicode page. Is this my problem or a bug in the page? If its my problem can someone suggest a fix?

several standard ligatures such as ﬀ (f-f), ﬅ (ſ-t), ﬆ (s-t), and of course ß (s-z). ucgajhe 12:10, Jun 23 (UTC)

Nazi Banning?? - Cufftitles

Sütterlin banned by the Nazis? explain the honorary cufftitles issued to the elite Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler, Feldherrnhalle and Großdeutschland divisions? --Ansbachdragoner 00:44, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Citings, links and literature can be found in the article de:Antiqua-Fraktur-Streit. I have requested a translation of that article into English, see Wikipedia:German-English translation requests#History. -- j. 'mach' wust | ‽ 13:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's great, however how doesent that conflict with the actual survivng cufftitles which were issued to, among others, the Großdeutschland Division, Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler and Feldherrnhalle formations? See the Panzer Corps Feldherrnhalle article for a photograph of a Sütterlin pattern cufftitle used throughout the war. --ansbachdragoner 02:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fraktur (and with it Sütterlin, I’d say) was banned by Martin Bormann in 1941, see letter at http://www.joern.de/borm.gif. He made the Antiqua to "normal type". The Nazis had erroneously taken Fraktur for Jewish. Hitler himself had condemned the "Gothic Script" at Reichsparteitag 1934. You are welcome to get or upload my digital copy of the letter. After the war we learned today’s standard writing here, but were later familiarized with fraktur and Sütterlin as well. Especially mathematicians continued to have a never ending thirst for special characters, and used fraktur for vectors, naturally written on university blackboards in Sütterlin. --Fritz Jörn (talk) 11:36, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that an "errornous belief" and a "propaganda trick" are two different things. I would really like to see a reference that Hitler had really been connecting Fraktur to his Jewish-paranoia - the history of black letters were known for quite a time so that one could hardly make up a Jew-myth about it, so it would be interesting to see how this cam about. Guidod (talk) 13:47, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I remember from history class that the Nazis introduced "normal" script; However, I also remember that there was a picture in our history book of a sign saying something like "Germans, do not buy from Jews! Only buy at German shops!". The sign was bilingual (English and German, very unusual for that time) and it used "normal" script for English but Fraktur for German. Another thing that I remember is that Sütterlin was banned for postal correspondance in early post-WW2 Germany. This was for a simple reason: Mail was being intercepted by US/British/French people who could understand German but couldn't read Sütterlin. So Germans who wanted to send mail had to use "normal" Latin letters. -- 79.238.174.228 (talk) 19:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Parseltongue

It is said the House of Slytherin in Harry Potter fantasy novels was named after Suetterlin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.131.210.162 (talk) 14:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Citation please? RedAugust 20:07, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WEll, Slytherin and Sütterlin sound quite similar, but I'm not sure that this similarity was intended by J. K. Rowling. However, Sütterlin is almost as hard to read as Parseltongue, so what you're saying is not absurd. However, I agree with RedAugust, we need a citation. -- 79.238.174.228 (talk) 19:46, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Um, isn't Slytherin based on the word "slither" like a snake? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.155.39 (talk) 09:30, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Image

I hate to nag but the long image shown in the sample seems to be a poor copy/paste job (Either that or each character was pasted into a font-maker program hastily). I think that the image at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Kant_Suetterlin.png is much more suitable. The letters connect in a cleaner manner and it appears more natural. RedAugust 20:09, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More nagging

The word "Kurrent" shows up in the sample text as "Kurrnet" (at least on my screen). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.39.111 (talk) 22:11, 6 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for banning script

Languages other than German were not written in the Sütterlin script. For example, my grandmother learned the Latin script when she started learning French. I've also seen a facsimile where everything was in German script, but the foreign (English) name was in Latin script (It was the facsmile of a pass issued to the British ambassador on the eve or World War I). It's not likely the Nazis were trying to write orders in, say, French using Sütterlin (they would have been using a typewriter, for starters) and then banned Sütterlin throughout Germany to accomodate the occupied peoples. I have heard (unverified) that the Nazis thought they had discovered Jewish origins of the old German writing, and that was the ostensible reason for banning it.

As for the culltitles: even after the ban, I imagine they would have decided to keep the German script on them as a heraldic, decorative element, since using the cursive German script (Kurrent/Sütterlin) and not the printed script (Fraktur) in itself would be considered decorative, in the same way that running script on a shop sign is more decorative than printed script. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.55.251.13 (talk) 00:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just asking

Is there an analagous national handwriting style for Spain and Russia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.201.166.54 (talk) 03:35, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Russia uses Cyrilic

Of course Russia has a handwriting style of its own--they have their own alphabet ! Differences from the block-printed or printing-press forms include that Cyrillic-script "t" is a Latin-script "m" with a macron on top of it ; Cyrillic-script "d" is a Latin-script "g" ; Cyrillic-script "i" is a Latin-script "u" -- I'm not kidding ! I don't know about Spain, but Australia has specified "italic" instead of "script", so it has its own national handwriting style... 4.154.250.119 (talk) 23:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Examples Correct?

Someone posted "Note this is not Sütterlin. It is a Kurrent alphabet which looks quite similar to Sütterlin. Differences can be found in e. g. P and F." beneath the examples. I removed the posting from the page, since it belongs here, not there. The German page has slightly different variants for the letters, noted. Perhaps those examples should be used here. --User:HopsonRoad 02:50, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This was me. The examples show a variant of the Deutsche Kurrentschrift which looks like Sütterlin, e. g. upright letters, constant line width. However this is not Sütterlin. Examples for Sütterlin can be found at Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache, Bund für deutsche Schrift und Sprache or the German version of this article.

In fact, the German version used to have the same example alphabet with the notice that it isn’t Sütterlin.

In my opinion, the example alphabet of the German Wikipedia should be used here since it is real Sütterlin. --Frakturfreak (talk) 18:10, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is the best spot to put my observation that (Deutsche)(Kurrent) Schrift was the adult script of German, while Sütterlin was a twentieth-century "kindergarten scribble". I'm the person who chimed in that the "e" of Schrift resembled two slashes which were put atop the a, o, and u and which were further reduced to the dots of the umlaut -- and this was moved to the Sütterlin page, where the "e" of Sütterlin does not look like two slashes ! 4.154.250.119 (talk) 23:58, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]