Talk:Roll the Bones

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Neil's quote added

The quote that Neil made describes a number of the songs: title track, "Face Up", "The Big Wheel", "Ghost of a Chance" & "You Bet Your Life". Does anyone know how to get rid of the big verticle space between what is said immediately before the quote and the quote itself? V Schauf (talk) 04:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chart status

If Roll the Bones peaked at #3, then there had to have been 2 others above it, right? So how is it that "only ... Metallica's Metallica ... prevent[ed] it from hitting #1 in the US"? There should be another album in the way too. So, what is that other album? --Patrick T. Wynne 18:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just going to post the exact same question. Clashwho 22:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Face Up hit #3 on radio?

The article mentions that in 1992, Face Up hit #3 as a Mainstream Rock Track. I believe this may be a mistake as Ghost of a Chance was popular on the radio around this time and is not mentioned as a radio single in the article.

You are correct. Ghost Of A Chance was the single that was released at the time and it hit #2 on the Mainstream Rock Chart. U2 prevented it from going to #1 as "Mysterious Ways" held that spot for about 2 1/2 months.

Heresy was not released as a single

I changed the part where it says that "Heresy" hit #24, first off Heresy was never released as a single and never charted. Second it was "Bravado" that was released to radio at this time and it hit #13 on the Mainstream Rock Chart.

It should be noted that none of songs on Roll The Bones were released as singles, they were "album cuts" meaning they were only released to radio for airplay and never for commercial sale (in stores). It was because of this that no Rush songs from this album charted on The Hot 100 as they were not released as retail singles which was Billboard's rules until 1998 when record companies did away with most singles altogether.

Stick It Out from Counterparts was the only 90's song by Rush to be made a retail single and thus charted at a low #76 on the Hot 100.

rolling stone review

The article says Rolling Stone reviewed the album and gave it 2.5 stars, but the link doesn't seem to work and searching on rolling stone's website seems to indicate that they didn't review it. Can anyone confirm one way or the other? If not I'll remove it soon. -- Zarvok | Talk 20:42, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

no response, so I'll remove it -- Zarvok | Talk 07:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Communist-based songs"

The last sentence is poorly constructed and factually inaccurate. Plenty of Rush's anti-communist songs don't contain the word "red" in the title. Freewill, Tom Sawyer, The Trees, 2112, Anthem. I am going to remove the sentence if no one objects. 153.104.16.114 21:30, 30 November 2005 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by V Schauf (talk • contribs) [reply]

Rap

The title track contains a rap of sorts. Can anyone work that into the article
Barrett Ross (talk) 01:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who performed the rap? 24.189.35.249 (talk) 23:25, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the rap was a slowed down, studio-edited passage of Geddy Lee's voice. I recall when he was on Rockline that he explained this. V Schauf (talk) 20:12, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia?

There appears to be a reference to the song in the online game World of Warcraft, in a quest named Roll The Bones. Should this be added to the articvle or is it not noteable enough. B-Talbot (talk) 21:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Rolling the bones" is a reference to gambling (specifically dice games...hence the album cover), and isn't unique to Rush. See here for more info. KieferFL (talk) 03:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Homosexuality?

"This album was originally to be entitled "Smoke A Bone", but was rejected by Lifeson And Peart, who didn't want the world to know that Geddy Lee likes to puff the meat sticks of various men." What on earth? Even if Geddy is gay, as is bluntly hinted here, is that at all relevant? And surely there's a better way of putting it? Grand Belial's Tea (talk) 12:02, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just a vandal having a little "fun". KieferFL (talk) 22:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, you better not put that on the "august, objective" article itself, lmao !

Genre listings

This album is pop rock; it hardly contains any traditional hard rock elements besides having guitars be the lead instruments (even then, sometimes on the album, they're not). [1][2]

I would change the genre listings of this album to pop rock and hard rock, in that order.— Preceding unsigned comment added by SomePersona (talk • contribs) July 24, 2017 (UTC)

For genre listings, Wikipedia generally prefers reliable sources first, with a well-established consensus as a secondary option.

Currently, the article cites AllMusic for "hard rock". The prose section of AllMusic (though not the side bar) has been repeatedly found to be a reliable source for genres. The first source you linked to does not say anything about a genre (other than "a taste of rap, a bit of funk, and a bigger 'groove'"). The second merely mentions "Its dabbling in pop...", which isn't enough to establish genre for the entire album, IMO. - SummerPhD^v2.0 14:29, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

AllMusic says Roll the Bones is pop rock with styles of hard rock and prog rock, and even if it is just on that sidebar, the other sources link the article to pop rock. Geddy Lee says in the article that they "streamline[d] the sound" and "utilize[d] a stronger sense of melody and vocal harmony." The second source refers to Roll the Bones as the third in a "Great Pop Experiment" (check its sections of Hold Your Fire, Presto, and Counterparts). The Counterparts section of the article specifically states that band had a "sleek, middle-of-the-road, pop-driven sound" from 1987 to 1991 that was "lightweight." It also notes that "Lee, Lifeson, and Peart were absolutely aware of what was going on around them, and if there was a perfect time to return to the heavy rock of their roots, it was then" in the Counterparts section." Also note that they were with a producer who worked with pop artists in the past. I think all of this justifies at least placing pop rock as a second genre. When Rush was making this album, they tried to make hard rock, but instead experimented so much that they ended up with a poppier sound, contrasting the harder, more rocking sound that would be found on Counterparts.

Thanks for the feedback. SomePersona (talk) 15:38, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

AllMusic's sidebar has been rejected in the past because it is apparently not subject to the site's editorial oversight. It seems to be automatically generated from Amazon. AllMusic's article does clearly say "hard rock".

Stereogum does not call it "pop rock" and I don't see it referred to as part of a "Great Pop Experiment". The only use of "pop" I can find in the article is "Its dabbling in pop had pulled the band down a rabbit hole...", seemingly referring to Power Windows. In any case, I do not see anything clearly stating "pop rock". - SummerPhD^v2.0 17:57, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In "Rush: The Illustrated History" by Martin Popoff (a music journalist), the chapter that talks about Presto and Roll the Bones is titled, "Pop Goes Rush, 1989-1992." The chapter talks about how Rush adapted a poppier sound with the two albums mentioned.

The Stereogum article does not refer to Power Windows. The article talks about Power Windows very positively; it also clearly states in the Power Windows section that "[a]fter this album, [] Rush would begin a period of relative comfort as it would continue to see just how far into pop its music could go." In the Hold Your Fire section, it notes how Rush would begin their "Great Pop Experiment." In the Presto section, Presto is referred to as "another continuation of Rush's great pop experiment." In the Presto and Roll the Bones section, Roll the Bones is referred to as a continuation of the sound on Presto with the same producer and the same poppy sounds. The Counterparts sections states a favoring towards the sound of Counterparts rather than the poppy sound from earlier albums.

As for it being "pop rock," every article, book, or source mentioned refers to the album establishing a rock sound with pop effects. SomePersona (talk) 19:28, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Stereogum article does refer to Power Windows: "Roll The Bones did monstrously in America, returning the band to the platinum echelon for the first time since 1985's Power Windows, but like every other band from the 1970s and 1980s, Rush would have to adjust with the most dramatic sea change in rock history thanks to a host of slovenly musicians from Seattle. Its dabbling in pop had pulled the band down a rabbit hole, rendering the brand out of date, and a serious adjustment would be needed if the guys had any hope of clawing out with integrity intact." Now that I read it again, it seems to be referring to material between Power Windows and Roll the Bones as the "dabbling in pop". In any case, it does not refer to Roll the Bones as "pop rock".

The Stereogum section says things about other albums that you might want to draw out into saying something about this album. I do not see where it directly states that Roll the Bones is "pop rock". I'm also not seeing "a poppier sound" as directly calling the album "pop rock". - SummerPhD^v2.0 22:14, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Stereogum article only mentions Power Windows since Roll the Bones was the first album since Power Windows to reach platinum in US charts, and again, it states that the sound of Rush from 1987 to 1991 was pop-driven. The Martin Popoff Rush biography similarly describes this album as a pop album. The Encylcopedia of Heavy Metal by Daniel Buckszpan refers to the years previously mentioned as part of the "slick pop years." I think this would justify at least classifying the album as a pop album (although pop rock makes a lot more sense). SomePersona (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

May I add pop as a genre to this album? SomePersona (talk) 19:19, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pop is directly stated in multiple sources I have listed in this talk page, so tomorrow, I will go ahead and add it as a genre. SomePersona (talk) 22:55, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

I am going to add a reception section to this article. The section will quote multiple reviews of the album as well as the album's reception by popular figures (only if I can find any). I would also move the professional ratings table to this section.

Obviously, this will be written in a neutral point of view. SomePersona (talk) 05:19, 6 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]